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June 2024
Wellness Insights for Vet Med Professionals and Beyond
Courtney A. Campbell, DVM, DACVS (Small Animal), a veterinary surgeon and media personality talks about the intersection of veterinary medicine, mental wellness, and the benefits of staying physically active away from work.
A Conversation with Courtney A. Campbell, DVM, DACVS (Small Animal)
In this excerpt from Central Line: The AAHA Podcast, host Katie Berlin, DVM, talks with Courtney A. Campbell, DVM, DACVS (Small Animal), a veterinary surgeon and media personality. Together, they explore the intersection of veterinary medicine and mental wellness and the benefits of staying physically active away from work.
The conversation covers a range of topics, from the significance of human-animal bonds to the diverse ways individuals can contribute to veterinary medicine and find purpose. Campbell shares personal experiences, emphasizing the importance of aligning one’s “how” with their unique personality and values. Touching on themes of gratitude and vulnerability, this episode provides a refreshing perspective on our professional lives and the ongoing pursuit of wellness.
You can follow along on Campbell’s journey by following him on Instagram (@drcourtneydvm) and visiting his website: drcourtneydvm.com.
Katie Berlin: Dr. Courtney Campbell, I have wanted to meet you for a long time. I see you on social media all the time, but we have never actually met, like shook hands, until about an hour ago.
Courtney Campbell: We’ve never spoken in person, but yet still we’re friends. It’s always funny when people ask you, “So how long have you guys known each other?” And you’re like, “Oh, I just met them five minutes ago.” They’re like, “How is that possible?”
KB: I feel like that’s one of the best things about getting older—you really know your people when you meet them. You know if they’re gonna be somebody that you click with or somebody that you just don’t really have all that much to say to. That doesn’t happen often in this community though.
CC: It doesn’t because we know that there is a commonality. So that’s why—I’m not just saying this because there’s a microphone in front of my face—but I’m so privileged and grateful to meet you.
KB: Same, yeah.
CC: As I get older, what I’m realizing is how precious your time is. When you’re super young, you think a lot about finances because you don’t have much; you’re a student and you’re just scraping by. I’m not going to say that’s not important as we get older, but you realize just how important people, time, and relationships are.
The lived experiences and relationships that you’ve had are so critical to contextualize the relationships you’re having now. If you’ve had a negative experience, you can consider it an investment, and the return on that investment is meeting an outstanding person. Because as you’re meeting that outstanding person, not only are you recognizing them for being so awesome and for being so cool, you’re also recognizing them in context to the some of the people you met who haven’t been so cool.
KB: That’s true. Everything’s relative, and by the time we get to be adults, there’s a history.
CC: Yes. That history helps us get acquainted, and it’s important to get upfront and close to that history. Think about ways that we could have improved as a person; think about ways we could have improved that interaction. As we get close and intimate with that history, then the rewards of that are these tremendously gratifying experiences with great people. In my humble opinion, you can’t have those gratifying experiences without being super acquainted with your history. And it’s tough sometimes; sometimes, the toughest experiences are where we learn the most.
The lived experiences and relationships that you’ve had are so critical to contextualize the relationships you’re having now. If you’ve had a negative experience, you can consider it an investment, and the return on that investment is meeting an outstanding person.Courtney A. Campbell, DVM, DACVS (Small Animal)
KB: Yes. And you learn it as you go, but you don’t realize it till later. Sometimes with therapy.
CC: Right, right. Lots and lots of therapy. You know what’s interesting? This is my opportunity to be vulnerable here. I have met so many people who have had therapy or are currently in therapy, and you can tell because the work that they’ve done on themselves is so self-evident. My admission here is that I don’t currently have a therapist, and I haven’t been to therapy, but I’m open to it. I would absolutely go to it. I haven’t had time to find one. But everybody who I’ve met who either has gone to therapy, you can tell because the work they’ve done on themselves has been tremendous.
KB: That’s so true. And I don’t think therapy’s the answer for everyone. I took 44 years too long to go to therapy. But now I have a therapist and it’s work, man. I get why people don’t have time. It doesn’t just take the hour appointment. It’s not an hour that you can fit in between meetings or on your way to a 10-hour day at work. You don’t just have your conversation and it’s done. You have your conversation and your brain is thinking about it on the way up to the conversation. And then after the conversation, your brain is trying to process everything you talked about, and maybe you’re sad or you dredged up stuff that you were like, I never wanted to think about that again in my whole life. It’s very hard, and if it’s fun, you’re probably not going deep enough.
CC: Yeah, I get you. And there’s analogies there a little bit to exercise. Some people ask, “What’s your favorite exercise to do?” Well, chances are, if it’s your favorite that’s not where you’re having the biggest growth. If you’re on the StairMaster and you’re like, I love StairMaster, you’re probably not going fast enough. You know what I’m saying?
KB: I do not love. Does anybody love the StairMaster?
CC: Nobody does. I’m not saying you need to hate it, but it certainly, there needs to be just a scintilla of discomfort there. I love what you said particularly about the fact that it can be hard. And here’s why I love what you said, because the word mental health and mental wellness and mindfulness are certainly buzzworthy words, and they warrant their fair share of attention. But a lot of times we don’t get a chance to talk about the nuances, the details, the nitty-gritty where the rubber meets the road about mental health. We say, “Hey, it’s important.” I agree 100%, but you are not going to find the best therapist right off the bat. Sometimes it works, sometimes it takes a few attempts.
It’s much easier just to say, “Yeah, mental wellness is important particularly in vet med;” but let’s talk about the details.
Some people ask, “what’s your favorite exercise to do?” Well, chances are, if it’s your favorite that’s not where you’re having the biggest growth. If you’re on the StairMaster and you’re like, I love StairMaster, you’re probably not going fast enough.Courtney A. Campbell, DVM, DACVS (Small Animal)
KB: And money. If you’re lucky enough to have insurance cover it, then my copay is $45, I pay $45 every two weeks to see a therapist. Is it worth it to me? Yes. Am I lucky enough to have $45 every two weeks to spend on this therapy? Yes. And not everybody is. And so definitely it’s much more complicated than just saying everybody should have a therapist.
But everybody should have something that helps you get out of your head a little bit. I used to say running is my therapy. This is a big fat lie.
CC: Tell me why it’s not therapy.
KB: Running can help you solve problems, but it’s not showing you things that you might need to see. Sometimes you need somebody else with training to hold the mirror up for you.
CC: That’s such a great point.
KB: But it definitely does help with mental health for me, a hundred percent. Running, the gym, yoga, all of that stuff, that’s really important to me.
Do you have like a third space where you don’t have to be Dr. Courtney Campbell? And you just, you don’t have responsibilities other than just to let yourself be there?
CC: I tend to engage in exercise that requires the maximal amount of mental focus. Endurance sports are fun, but they do allow for some thoughts about work life. Those sorts of things creep in while I’m trying to get through an endurance activity.
Now, if I’m sprinting uphill several times in interval training, I’m not thinking about anything else. You have to get your breath back before you collapse. Or if I’m trying to pick up something very heavy or press it off my shoulders— if it’s so heavy that I’m only thinking about the fact that I need to get this off of my body, otherwise my chest caves in—I’m not thinking about, well, Tommy said this to me yesterday at work. All I’m thinking about at that hour is that.
So high-intensity training—that’s what takes my mind off of anything else.
I used to have a bunch of buddies who were veterinary technicians—shout out to veterinary technicians, just amazing—and every Sunday they used to be like, “Hey, Courtney, let’s meet in my garage and we’ll put on some boxing gloves and we’ll spar.”
For me, combat sports—boxing, wrestling, jiu-jitsu—also tend to do that. You aren’t thinking about anything else if you are in some sort of combat athletics. Whatever it is, if you are being punched, you’re not thinking, “Huh, I wonder what I’m going to do tomorrow?” No, you’re thinking, I have to defend myself. So shout out to anybody who does jiu-jitsu, wrestling, boxing, whatever it is—if you’re in some sort of combat sport, you know it takes 100% focus.
KB: You gotta be in the moment.
CC: You gotta be in the moment for sure. And I’m sure the cases with lower-impact sports like yoga, pilates, and stuff like that; do you currently do that or no?
KB: I do. I taught puppy yoga here.
CC: Wow.
KB: I mean, teaching puppy yoga, they’re there for the puppies. But yoga is tough because the whole thing is being in the moment and trusting your body, but there’s also nothing to distract you. You’re not trying to run, push a rock up a hill, or pull a sled that weighs a bazillion pounds.
There’s phases in life. I used to be in a pushing phase. I used to want to push, push, push and do HIIT classes and boot camps, and I used to teach P90X LIVE and I would be dead. But I don’t want to do that right now; I’m in an allowing phase now.
CC: Talk to me about that allowing phase, yoga, and how animals are integrated. Because listen, there’s going to be people who hear us right now and are like, “Okay, this goat yoga, cat yoga, dog yoga. What is all of that? That’s a bunch of nonsense. Why are you integrating animals in yoga?” And to somebody who’s uninitiated, like myself, break it down for me. I’m pro animals, but what’s the point of integrating animals in yoga?
KB: I was a big skeptic of things like goat yoga for a long time. But I also didn’t really love yoga. At that time, I was in a pushing phase where I was like, if there’s goats there, what are you actually doing? You’re playing with the goats. What if they climb on you when you’re on the ground? They’re real pointy. And as you were saying earlier, if you’re smiling during a workout or if you really enjoy the StairMaster, you’re probably not doing it quite hard enough. StairMaster is a building, pushing workout; it’s not a joy workout. You’re doing it to build strength and muscle.
CC: Absolutely.
KB: But there are workouts that are just for joy. And I teach a dance fitness workout—that’s joy. If you’re worried about how many calories you’re burning, you’re not doing the workout. You might as well be on the StairMaster. But to do dance and to do yoga—those workouts are about joy and about saying, this is something my body can do and I’m celebrating it. And yes, maybe I want to get better at it, but you appreciate what your body can do during those workouts because at the end you feel joy. And I think that’s what the animals have to do with it.
CC: Got it, got it.
KB: It’s really hard not to feel joy when you’re doing downward dog, you’re upside down and there’s a puppy sitting there. There was one guy—actually the AAHA-accredited practice of the year owner, shout out to Upper Arlington—and he was in the front row at puppy yoga. He went into child’s pose at the end, which is where he was in a crouch position with his head down on the mat. And a puppy just came along and sat on it. It was the cutest thing. And then he couldn’t get up until the puppy got up.
CC: Of course you’re right. It’s like those people who sleep on a corner of the bed because they don’t want to disturb their dogs.
KB: Yes. That joy of just watching those puppies sort of cavort around while we were enjoying this beautiful morning on the roof, that to me is the essence of yoga.
CC: That is really cool. And here I thought the essence of yoga was the state of being comfortable in discomfort or the state of being comfortable in uncomfortable states. And you’re saying, no, you can enjoy your workouts with joy. It makes sense.
KB: Generally speaking, any of those workouts that are about the joy of movement and connecting with your body, you could easily incorporate animals into those too.
CC: You know what’s interesting too, and this is something that I noticed recently after I had a bike fall, is that sometimes the privilege of body movement is lost on you. Where you’re like, I don’t want to work out today. I don’t want to do this today. Then all of a sudden, I fall off my bike, I have a bad sprained wrist and I can’t pick up a kettlebell, I can’t pick up a dumbbell because I can’t make a fist. All of a sudden that peace or that joy is removed from me. People always say you don’t recognize what you have until it’s lost—it’s axiomatic to say that, but it’s very true. When you’re dealing with health and fitness, you don’t realize what a privilege it is to have movement until something takes that movement away.
KB: Yeah, totally true. We have so many discussions now about burnout and attrition, having trouble finding qualified team members, it seems like people are reluctant to recommend the field to others. But in your social media, and when you talk to people who are not in the veterinary community about veterinary medicine, you seem full of joy and you really seem grateful that this is something that you get to do.
It seems like a “get-to” for you and not a “have-to.” I feel like that’s what you’re talking about. Do you feel like you take that “get-to” versus “have-to” attitude to work with you, and that’s one of the reasons you love it so much?
CC: That’s a great question. I mainly think about your “how.” There’s been a lot of attention towards your “why,” why are you doing this? For a lot of us, our why is common—all of us in some shape or form have an affection towards improving the human-animal bond, working on behalf of the animal, advocating on behalf of animals, and the human-animal bond connection. But how do you do that? Your “how” is aligned with the person that you are. If you tend to be that kind of person where you’re very analytical, then your “how” may be veterinary forensics, it may be veterinary research, it may be veterinary anatomic pathology.
I feel like the commonality for all of us is that we are all working on behalf of improving human-animal relationships, family-pet relationships, the human-animal bond. The question is, how are you doing that? And is that aligned with who you are? For me, fortunately, my how is aligned with who I am. Certainly, advocating on behalf of young people who are interested in the field of veterinary medicine—that really fills my cup, and veterinary surgery does. And looking for innovative techniques—that also fills my cup. Teaching and speaking—that also fills my cup. So for me, as long as my “how” is aligned with who I am, then that makes me feel good.
KB: That makes so much sense. We don’t talk about the “how” that much; we often think the “how” is secondary and you shouldn’t worry so much about the ”how” as long as you have the “why.” But the “why” isn’t what you’re facing every single day when you go to work.
My overall mission hasn’t changed in vet med, but going to a general practice every day, working my appointments, doing my surgeries, coming home, that was the wrong “how.” And I don’t regret having done it, but I don’t want to go back to it. My “how” now is so different, but I feel like this is where I can actually contribute because I’m happy every day and I’m motivated to go to work.
I feel like the commonality for all of us is that we are all working on behalf of improving human-animal relationships, family-pet relationships, the human-animal bond. The question is, how are you doing that?Courtney A. Campbell, DVM, DACVS (Small Animal)
CC: Right. I like the way you put that because the reality is if you asked me my why, I could probably give you a pretty cogent answer. And if I asked you your “why,” you would give a cogent answer. And they would probably be similar. So now that we’re both aligned on our why, the question becomes how are we going to execute it? If you say to me, “Courtney, I just really like improving the human-animal bond and advocating on behalf of the animals.”
KB: Me too.
CC: Right. And me too. But you say, “you know what I do, I have this amazing podcast where people get to hear about their experiences in lifestyles of veterinary medicine. And that’s how I do it.” And I’m like, “Oh, I have the same why, but I do mine through surgery.” We have two different styles of execution. But our why is the exact same.
KB: That’s so true. And surgery would never be my how. I’ve done plenty of surgeries, and then, when something went wrong, I would basically lose 10 years off my life so that is not for me.
CC: That bead of sweat that pops up on your forehead and your toes start curling and everything. You’re like, oh geez, this is not going the way I want it to go.
KB: I’m like, is my boss in the building? Can she come in here? Like, can she come in here right now?
CC: Of course. Because that six inches in front of your face is your reality and people outside of that reality don’t quite understand what’s happening. Your reality can change in a heartbeat. So as your nurse anesthetist is talking to you and they’re in a good mood because they just went to a nice concert last night and they’re talking to you about it. That’s great. But then your reality has just changed a second ago. And now, even though you are in the same room, less than a foot apart, you two are having two totally different experiences. A lot of people don’t understand that.
KB: I had some questions to ask you. And I’m not going to ask any of them because I like this conversation better. I feel like this is a more personal conversation with you than a lot of people get. And I’m really, I feel really privileged to have had it.
CC: I feel overjoyed and I don’t even know the time. I’m not even thinking about time, but I know it flew by.
Central Line is generously supported by CareCredit.
Illustrations by: ©AAHA/Alison Silverman